An Interview with HH17 Karmapa Thaye Dorje - #3
Menlo Park, California, USA, sept 2003

BT: What is the difference between Mahamudra and Dzogchen?
Karmapa: These are just different methods. There are different approaches for different people, whatever is suitable for them. In the end, it does not matter which methods we use to attain realization. The fruit is always the same. It's like saying, "Now I am going to Frankfurt, and I can get there with Lufthansa or with United."

BT: In our Diamond Way Buddhist centers, the main practice is Guru Yoga on the 16th Karmapa. Will you explain the benefits of this practice?
Karmapa: One must first understand the meaning of Guru Yoga. Guru Yoga is the practice on one's own teacher. Normally, one could visualize a peaceful or a wrathful deity, but the reason for doing Guru Yoga is that the teacher is a human being, just like us. In this way, it is easier to relate to him or her; we can have a stronger link and a better connection. In fact, without the teacher, one would never know the dharma. A guru is the best guide, the best way. Both deity practice and Guru Yoga are essential, but the reason Guru Yoga is so special is that without a teacher one would never even know the deity. The teacher shows us everything. We are taking all of his or her qualities and using them to reach the same level of realization.
When we think of a teacher, because he is human like us, we can more easily relate to him and gain something. So when we practice Guru Yoga, the blessing we receive will be even greater, simply because our mind is more open. Otherwise, we could just do Guru Yoga on a stone. It's the same. But with the teacher we feel more confident.
On the other hand, we should not think of a teacher as only being human, but also think of his qualities. These qualities are the Three Jewels; the teacher has all three. Like the Buddha, he is not simply a person but someone who shows the path to enlightenment. Secondly, he possesses and knows the dharma, and thirdly, he or she helps us on our way, and that is the sangha. If you think that Guru Yoga is a practice on the teacher's body only, then it will be a source of samsara. There is no lasting quality in a human body; it's just flesh and bones.
Through Guru Yoga, the teacher enables us to understand the last stage, that final piece that makes everything clear as crystal. The teacher has such a quality.

BT: Guru Yoga seems to be a much more convenient practice for our lifestyle than, for instance, the Six Yogas of Naropa.
Karmapa: Every part of Buddhist practice is essential. Whichever practice you do is important, and they are all effective. If you feel more confident, and something is more suitable for you, you will attain results more quickly. It is a matter of what is most suitable for each individual, for his or her situation, for the time, and even for the culture.

BT: Can we achieve the realization of the great masters without long retreats and such practices as The Six Yogas of Naropa?
Karmapa: When we talk about the Six Yogas of Naropa, we think of so many things we have to do, and it feels like a huge burden. Then we hear that if one simply does Guru Yoga, one can achieve the same result. One says, "Yes, Guru Yoga is very short, and I can do it." But slowly one comes to understand the special qualities of the methods of the Six Yogas of Naropa, like for instance the Phowa, that without doing them one cannot go as deep and cannot actually realize the truth in such a short time. So at some point one wants to practice The Six Yogas; it becomes a necessity. Through Guru Yoga, one will get closer and receive bits and pieces of the Six Yogas of Naropa. One will get a taste of it but not the complete experience.

BT: Could you say something about the power of mantra? What are the benefits of using the Karmapa Chenno mantra?
Karmapa: We use the Karmapa Chenno mantra in the Guru Yoga practice on the 16th Karmapa to get closer to Karmapa's level of realization. In Tibetan, karma means activity, and pa is the person who performs activity. Karmapa means simply the man of activity. So, even the mantra is a form of Guru Yoga.

BT: Just saying the mantra is Guru Yoga?
Karmapa: Maybe not exactly just saying it, but also thinking about its meaning. When we repeat this mantra, we are very close to Karmapa's essence; we invoke his body, speech and mind. These words carry the essence of the three forms of Karmapa: past, present and future. One can simply say that Karmapa, or any other teacher we do Guru Yoga on, embodies the Three Jewels.
When reciting the six syllable mantra of Chenrezig (skt. Avalokitesvara), Om Mani Peme Hung, we open our minds to his timeless qualities. When Avalokitesvara took the Bodhisattva Vow and began his activity, he made strong wishes that all who repeated this mantra would receive his blessing. It is the same with Karmapa Chenno.